A tale of two continents

"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse)
08/13/2014 at 18:12 • Filed to: None

America and Europe are two different places, right?

Right.

The Americans love Subarus, but not nearly as much as they love Hondas. They love Hondas so much they bought 1.5m of the things last year.

Honda were known for making smallish, reliable, economical, cleverly designed and built cars so we'd just love them in Europe wouldn't we? Er, no. Not any more. At one time the Civic was quite a big seller and the Accord was a common sight. The CRV arrived and that left forecourts fairly quickly too. But then it all went wrong. The Accord (which confusingly is a different beast to the American one, being what you'd call an Acura) has declined so much it's expected to be withdrawn in the near future. The Civic has been treated to a new 1.6 diesel and there's now a Tourer, or if you prefer a wagon/estate but it still doesn't sell in any number. Overall Honda sell about 140,000 in an EU market of about 12m, or rather less than Suzuki and Mazda. They're even outsold by Chevrolet, who are deader than a very dead thing.

Subaru sell so slowly they're lumped in with "other".

So what's the issue with these two? I guess they've just decided to make what sells in the North American market.

Meantime have a Civic Tourer. It may very well be a diesel one.

DISCUSSION (20)

mcseanerson > Cé hé sin
08/13/2014 at 18:16

Seriously, are they taking away your civic type R to give you our leftover SI garbage?

GhostZ > Cé hé sin
08/13/2014 at 18:17

I guess they've just decided to make what sells in the North American market.

Yes.

I imagine safety regulations make up for the biggest difference, because it's just not a profitable position to try and design a car for both regulations.

Cé hé sin > mcseanerson
08/13/2014 at 18:22

Well, there's no Civic R on sale now if that's what you mean.

Cé hé sin > GhostZ
08/13/2014 at 18:23

Maybe, although BMW and Merc (to name two) seem to manage.

mcseanerson > Cé hé sin
08/13/2014 at 18:23

Europe and Australia are turning into America in the 90's and now we're getting all the good stuff. My how the tables have turned.

Cé hé sin > mcseanerson
08/13/2014 at 18:25

Most of the Honda and Subaru range doesn't seem to be particularly good stuff...

GhostZ > Cé hé sin
08/13/2014 at 18:26

They also have far larger development budgets than Honda per model (I imagine), since they sell less units at a higher price.

Also, because they don't compete in the economy segment, they don't have to worry about building a platform that fits two sets of engines and two body styles despite losing fuel economy or power. People can forgive a platform that is too heavy for what it is because it needs to serve multiple purposes (and the loss of fuel economy that results) a lot easier when it's a luxury sedan than when it's a hatchback.

HammerheadFistpunch > Cé hé sin
08/13/2014 at 18:29

For Honda? I don't know.

Regarding Subaru, they aren't a big seller anywhere - per capita I would bet we buy as many

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > Cé hé sin
08/13/2014 at 18:45

The 2012 Impreza is pretty good. If only they still offered the 2.5 in the Impreza.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > HammerheadFistpunch
08/13/2014 at 18:47

The North east and north Mid West probably buy the most of them because of the weather in those two areas.

HammerheadFistpunch > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback
08/13/2014 at 18:48

In Utah its a requirement* to own at least one in your life

*probably.

KirkyV > mcseanerson
08/13/2014 at 18:52

We're between generations; I'm fairly sure we'll be getting the next one. Besides, it's less that people want Hondas, and aren't getting them, and more that basically no one wants a Honda anymore. They're not really seen as competitive.

Cé hé sin > HammerheadFistpunch
08/13/2014 at 18:54

No, not Subaru. Market share in the US is about 3%, here it's so small I can't find any separate figures.

Cé hé sin > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback
08/13/2014 at 18:58

Might be good, but buyers here stay away in droves. Subaru designed a flat four diesel specially for us but it didn't make any difference. People might associate the Impreza with JDM cars driven by yobs which doesn't help them any.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > HammerheadFistpunch
08/13/2014 at 19:06

The Outback and Forester

HammerheadFistpunch > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback
08/13/2014 at 19:06

having just sold my Forester last year, im covered.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > Cé hé sin
08/13/2014 at 19:08

The Impreza is a really good car, its a shame what people have made it into though. Mainly those dicks in stances WRX and STi

duurtlang > Cé hé sin
08/14/2014 at 04:45

I can tell you the Dutch market share of Subaru for the first 7 months of 2014 . It's 0.18% and was 0.16% last year (full year). Honda is at 0.41% now (less than Alfa Romeo) and was at 0.49% last year. Both fall in the 'other' category here.

For comparison: Toyota is at 5.02% and Renault at 8.09% while VW (just VW, excluding Audi, Skoda and the like) is at 10.69%.

duurtlang > GhostZ
08/14/2014 at 04:54

The problem is that Honda and Subaru are simply not selling a significant number of cars in Europe any more due to this strategy. Even Alfa Romeo, with its gutted lineup, sells more vehicles than Honda and almost three times as many as Subaru in my market (the Netherlands).

The development budget argument seems like BS to me, it's a choice. For every Honda sold in my market Toyota sells 12 vehicles and Kia 13. Yet, in 1990, Toyota sold only 3 vehicles per every Honda sold here and 5 for every Subaru. Honda has given up on the European market for some reason, they're just not competitive. The same goes for Subaru. Both have seen their market shares plummet in the last two decades. Honda had a market share of 2.76% in the Netherlands in 1984, yet it's at 0.41% in 2014 (first 7 months).

Cé hé sin > duurtlang
08/14/2014 at 10:16

For the same period we have exactly 100 Subarus (0.13%) and just over 1,000 Hondas making them 1.4%. VW alone come in at just under 12%. Interestingly Hyundai have increased to 8.6%.